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I am about to refinance for the first time. In the process I heard the term 2% rule. What is it actually?

Samantha's picture
Samantha | Joined: September 16, 2005 11:59 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Brenda,

2-percent rule is a thumb rule to determine whether it is going to be a good decision from financial side to refinance the mortgage.

As per this rule, if your rate on the mortgage is reduced by at least 2% then only you should refinance to get a benefit.

God bless you.

For MortgageFit,
Samantha

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jerry's picture
jerry | Joined: October 17, 2005 03:24 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi,

Experts suggest a 2-2-2 rule of thumb to determine whether or not refinancing would pay off. Refinancing would make sense if you have stayed in your house for 2 years, planning to stay there for another 2 years and the new rate is 2 points lower than your mortgage rates at present. This formula may not apply always because even a drop of 1% point from the present rate will make the refinancing attractive.

According to banking sources when the earning potential of your assets are more than the cost of financing, then you should consider a mortgage that minimizes your monthly payment. This way you can increase your cash flow for investing. It will be a mistake if you automatically refinance with your existing lender without considering other. So it is advisable that you discuss your alternative with a mortgage advisor.

Thanks,
Jerry

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I am refinancing at 1% point lower. Rates won't be 2% for me, unless some miracle happens! I am saving $150 a month on my mortgage. To me its worth it.

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jameshogg's picture
jameshogg | Joined: December 20, 2005 02:58 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Guest!

Has the lender agreed to refinance the loan? Consult with the lender and check out whether you will face any issues later on or not.

Thanks

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

The 2% rule was constantly discussed in 1985 whe I started in the mortgage business. Back then the maximum conforming loan was about $90,000. With mortgage amounts that low, the rate had to be 2% or more lower than the current rate to "break even on the costs" in 2 to 3 years. Now the maximum conforimg loan is $417,000. When mortgages are larger, it does not take a lesser rate of 2% to "break even on the costs".
In this day and age, I usually calculate how much the monthly payment needs to drop to break even in 2 to 3 years. On large loans, that could be a rate drop of .50%. Usually the break even point on costs is a drop in monthly payment of about $125. If your payment is dropping $150 a month, you are probably breaking even in 24 months or less. Today is Nov 25 and rates dropped dramatically today. You should be able to get a better rate today and break even faster than 24 months.

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steve21's picture
steve21 | Joined: November 23, 2008 11:12 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

The easiest way to compare is to take the cost of refinancing (closing costs on a good faith estimate, not escrows and prepaids), then divide that by the amount of money you will save on your monthly payment. This will show you how long it will take to break even.

Example: If it costs you $3000 to refinance a loan that will save you $300 per month, you can break even after 10 months - smart! If it costs you $10,000 to refinance a loan that will save you $100 per month, it will take you 100 months to break even - not smart.

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banker0679's picture
banker0679 | Joined: November 15, 2007 10:05 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Are you speaking about the benefits of the 2% rule or the 2% limited cashout available to you?

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I have a 70000 mortgage at 5.375. I have seen an offer for 4.2% with 2 points up front. Is this worth refinancing?

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

You should refinance only if you are planning to stay in the property for next couple of years. Otherwise, it wouldn't be reasonable to refinance the property. If you want to stay in the property, go ahead with the refinance option.

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gmakerley's picture
gmakerley | Joined: November 9, 2007 07:36 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

dougie, you need to make a calculation to tell you how long it will take you to recoup the costs (2%) of your refinance. two points isn't a whole lot of money in comparison, but your savings on monthly payments will tell you a lot.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I have a mortgage rate of 6.25% on a 204000 house for 30 years. Does it make sense to refinance to a 5.2% or a 4.75%? I am an elderly person and don't know how long I can stay in the house.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I have a mortgage rate of 6.25% on a 204000 house for 30 years. Does it make sense to refinance to a 5.2% or a 4.75%? I am an elderly person and don't know how long I can stay in the house.

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arya310706's picture
arya310706 | Joined: July 29, 2009 10:26 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

2% rule is benefited for getting benefit of 2% while refinancing.
One should consult with lender

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ashleyblanton's picture
ashleyblanton | Joined: February 3, 2009 02:17 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Exactly what Steve said. You loan can stay at the same interest rate, but you are paying off debt, then your saving monthly can quickly outweigh the cost of the loan.

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gmakerley's picture
gmakerley | Joined: November 9, 2007 07:36 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

but ashley, are you answering mamie? i don't think that's what she wants to know.

mamie - you mentioned you don't know how long you'll be in the home. if you're skeptical about making up the difference in costs by reducing your payments over time, then you might not want to bother with the refinance. you didn't mention any amount of closing costs, but you'd want to be certain that the savings you would reap in refinancing at the lower rate would compensate for the costs you would incur. if you can recover those costs in a 2-year period, for example, then it's usually worth it. if, on the other hand, you don't think you'll be there in 2 years, it's probably not worth the trouble.

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Realgeni's picture
Realgeni | Joined: April 13, 2009 08:03 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Mamie

With $204000 at 6.25% your monthly payment will be - $1256

Same loan at 5.2% will be $1120

AT 4.75% your monthly payemtn will be $1064/-

Exlcuding the closign cost you are for sure goign to save money monthly. But I am not sure what will be closing cost for refinancing.

If you can let us knwo that amount, we can absoultely tell you which one is a better option

Good luck and feel free to ask

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

First thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I'm still working on refinancing. One lender wants to charge me 2 points which amounts to 4568.00 and an upfront fee which is 3928.00.
In addition will pay off my 5th/3rd loan approximately 4000.00 and Visa card 6000.00. This brings my total loan to 228428.00. And my mortage payment is not lower. However, I won't have to pay debts each month. Any comments? Thanks again

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Me again...what about a 5/1 arm? I am 70, in good health, and spry.

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adonis's picture
adonis | Joined: October 22, 2005 05:04 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Mamie,

I don't think it would be a good option to [url=http://www.mortgagefit.com/refinance.html]refinance[/url] if your monthly payments will not reduce. Moreover, you will have to pay an upfront fee as well as 2 points in order to refinance the loan. Thus, you will have to pay quite a large sum to the lender but your payments will not reduce. So in my opinion, it won't be good to refinance. However, the decision would be solely yours. If you feel that you would be comfortable paying the dues, then you can refinance the loan.

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gmakerley's picture
gmakerley | Joined: November 9, 2007 07:36 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

mamie, if you're eliminating debt and reducing your overall monthly payments, that's not a bad idea at all.

as for 5/1 arm, be sure you know what's going to take place on that fifth anniversary. they're not a bad deal, if you can get a better rate than currently offered on a fixed-rate loan. it depends on how much you'd be saving on a monthly basis and what you're willing to risk over the long term.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

What are upfront fees ? The rate quoted to me is 5.%. My present rate is 6.25. Is there any way to reduce closing costs?
Thanks again....mamie

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jameshogg's picture
jameshogg | Joined: December 20, 2005 02:58 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi mamie,

It is a fee paid by a borrower to the lender for making a loan. As far as I know, the upfront fees will be structured as a percentage of the sum committed to the loan as well as a flat fee. As far as your closing costs are concerned, you can negotiate with your lender and check if he can lower the closing costs for you.

Thanks

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I have 1st mortgage at 5.75% w/$141K balance and a 2nd [url=http://www.mortgagefit.com/home-equity.html]home equity loan[/url] at 8.9% w/19K balance both at 30yr. Should I combine them and refinance at 4.75% for 30yr or 15yr. I plan on staying in the home minimum 5yrs, max 10 yrs. What should I do?

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gmakerley's picture
gmakerley | Joined: November 9, 2007 07:36 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

if a 15 year loan fits your budget and you want to pay down your principal faster, then that's the plan for you. if you prefer the lower payments, however, 30 years would work and you still have opportunity (by prepaying) to reduce your balance faster. it's a highly individualized decision to make, so i'd dare not tell you which way to go without knowing all about you.

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sunnyca2009's picture
sunnyca2009 | Joined: August 4, 2009 07:15 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

If you cna afford to make the payments then combine them and go for a 15 year payment and probably negotiate for lower interest rate. Normally 15 years is less then 30 years

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greggwyburn's picture
greggwyburn | Joined: September 13, 2009 12:23 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Joelle,
you can combine both the mortgages.

Tenure of mortgage will depend upon you. lower the duration, higher will be monthly payments. but you will save on total payments.

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gmakerley's picture
gmakerley | Joined: November 9, 2007 07:36 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

the confluence of baffled people and untintelligible commentary creates much consternation here. 15 vis a vis 30 - less is more?

the entertainment value of this website is much underrated, as well.

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christinehynes's picture
christinehynes | Joined: September 5, 2009 11:56 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

whomever told you that is so wrong and are scamming your for money, run as fast as you can as there is no refi or 2%; if you qualify for a loan mod the lowest is 2% but that is only if you qualify. our attorneys will qualify you up front for free based on dti.

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gmakerley's picture
gmakerley | Joined: November 9, 2007 07:36 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Christine, you are way off base. the original post had nothing to do with a 2% interest rate; it was in regards to the savings being 2%; the rule of thumb that suggests that one has to check the savings of the refinancing transaction in comparison with the costs of the refinance.

there's nobody looking for a modification in this instance.

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lee.elliot61's picture
lee.elliot61 | Joined: September 13, 2009 02:07 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Joelle
you can continue with merging option.
Secondly you have a plan to continue in home for min 5-10 yrs.

As a rule of thumb, you should be able to recover closing cost during your stay in the house.

otherwise you are not saving anything

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi,
We currently have a 6% FRM on $88,000 home. We've lived here for over 6 years. We do not have a penny and are not planning to move anytime soon. We would like to refinance to help us with our debts. Our credits are average. I would like to know if we qualify for refinancing. Thanks!!

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jameshogg's picture
jameshogg | Joined: December 20, 2005 02:58 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Guest,

If you want to qualify for a [url=http://www.mortgagefit.com/refinance.html]refinance[/url] you should have a stable income and a good credit score. Apart from this you should also have equity in the property. If you want to take a conventional mortgage, then you should have a credit score of at least 720-740. If you satisfy the required criteria by the lender, then you would be able to get a refinance.

Thanks

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snvservices's picture
snvservices | Joined: November 20, 2009 02:54 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi,

Refinance option according to me is no doubt very good as, this will definitely work out a great help for you. as, for this you need to require good credit score and stable income which will help you to achieve good.

Thanks!

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Thanks for your inputs. I found out that my credit is not the perfect average score I had thought. My credit scores are in the high 600s. I know this is not good enough. I am not sure what to do now...

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adonis's picture
adonis | Joined: October 22, 2005 05:04 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Guest,

You can apply for a loan modification with your lender. The lender will agree to your request depending upon your financial situation. In this process, the lender may reduce your interest rate in order to make the loan more affordable for you to pay it off. However, the term of the loan may get increased in this process.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Don,t forget to add the cost of the extra years you will have to pay on the loan. You could have paid 8 years of payment now you will have to go back to 30 years. That is an additional 8 yrs times 12 months equals 96 months at full payments. Refinance doesn' sound to good to me.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I am considering refinancing to lower payments. I am 57 yrs old, plan to live in this house forever, owe 149,000, 24 years at 1080.00 a month. The current rate offered is 4.6 and my payment would be 930.00 for 30 years. Please advise.

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jerry's picture
jerry | Joined: October 17, 2005 03:24 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Marilyn,

As you're planning to stay in the property forever, it will be a good idea to refinance the loan in order to take advantage of the lower rates. If you have the financial situation to afford the payments, then you can refinance the loan.

Thanks,

Jerry

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I understand the 2% rule but my question is this point thing? what does that mean. I am trying to refinance my house 120,000 we got our home in 2008 @ interest rate of 6.75% and right now I have heard its running around 4.75% which would be very beneficial but I don't understand the points that if stay in your home after you have refinance for two years more you get your points back...I hope someone can help!

Thanks!
Rose

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Are you speaking about the break even period? It is the minimum length of time that you must hold the new mortgage to make the refinancing pay.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Do you have to have excellent credit to refinance?
What if your credit is above your means

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adonis's picture
adonis | Joined: October 22, 2005 05:04 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Welcome Tina,

You should have excellent credit scores in order to get a mortgage refinance. If you want to qualify for a conventional loan, you should have a score of 700-720 whereas for FHA loan, you should have a score not below than 580.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I need to refinance $203,000 at a rate of 4.875% with no closing fees. Currently my rate is 5.5%> I am planning to stay for a long time in my house. Please advise

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adonis's picture
adonis | Joined: October 22, 2005 05:04 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Welcome Huda,

I feel it would be a good option to refinance the loan with type of rates and terms you are getting. Moreover, you won't have to pay any closing costs even. Thus, it would be a good option to refinance. However, you can speak to the other lenders of your area in order to find out if someone can offer you a further low interest rate. If you receive a further low rate, then you can go for it.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I have same questions as friendship,
"Don,t forget to add the cost of the extra years you will have to pay on the loan. You could have paid 8 years of payment now you will have to go back to 30 years. That is an additional 8 yrs times 12 months equals 96 months at full payments. Refinance doesn' sound to good to me."
Do we have to account for the "years" when comparing monthly payment? As friendship stated, you new payment may be is $200 less and you can break even with the fee in 2 years but you have 30 years of payment instead of your existing 22 years remaining. How you compare?

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adonis's picture
adonis | Joined: October 22, 2005 05:04 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Welcome Kwok,

It is true that once you refinance the loan, you will get a loan of 30 years. Thus, you won't be able to own the property free and clear prior to 30 years. If you plan to live in the property for a longer period of time, it does make sense to refinance the loan in order to get low interest rates and reduced monthly payments.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Consumer, take the time to understand the situation and make your own decision. A mortgage broker does not have a fiduciary duty to make a recommendation in your best interest. A fixed rate mortgage is front-end loaded so the initial years mostly pay interest. Yes, consider the change to your monthly payment. But, also consider whether or not your present mortgage is paying off principle and if you do refinance, how much longer you'll have to make those monthly payments. Even if you won't be in the home until payoff, you'll receive a higher credit when the house sold because you paid off more principle. After you refinance, you're back to mostly interest being paid for the first few years.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

If i was to [url=http://www.mortgagefit.com/refinance.html]refinance[/url] today I'd pay $4,826 in closing cost to save $154.37 in monthly payments. That's (4 835 / 154.37) = ~ 31.26 months to break even.
I'll likely stay longer in the house but i am not sure that's such a great deal.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I currently owe 110,000 on a property with the tax statement saying a RMV of 194,390. It is a fixed 30 yr loan with 6.625 %. The loan was generated in 2003.
I would like to go to a 15 yr fixed
My gross income last year was 52,000. My total debt including my house is 118,000 and I have a high credit rating. I have been at my place of employment for 11 yrs. Should I refinance or just pay extra to pay off the 110,000 in 10 to 12 yrs as I would like to have it payed off when I retire.
Problem is this is a Mobile Home and it seems to have a higher interest rate then a stick built house. Thanks for your time Cheri

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adonis's picture
adonis | Joined: October 22, 2005 05:04 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Welcome Cheri,

You can refinance your existing mortgage and get a 15 year fixed rate mortgage. If you can afford to pay the closing costs, then it will be a good option to refinance as you'll be able to get rid of your debts quite earlier.

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