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Will a enhanced life estate deed cause a Medicaid penalty?

We recently applied for Medicaid in Texas for my elderly, disabled mother who is in a nursing care facility. We spent down all her assets with the exception of her home. We put that in a "lady bird deed". Medicaid notified me that she is going to be penalized for having a "lady bird deed" on the home. I was under the impression that this deed would not cause a penalty period. Should we have waited to draw up the deed for a later time? Please help...

adonis's picture
adonis | Joined: October 22, 2005 05:04 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Welcome Jomirel,

I think you should have waited for some more time prior to drawing up the deed. but hey, did they give you the condition that you cannot draw up any deed or else you will be penalized. They must have informed you about this earlier.

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jomirel's picture
jomirel | Joined: June 18, 2007 08:33 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Actually, the medicaid case worker was nice enough to tell us that my mother will be penalized for having the lady bird deed. And put her application as "pending" in case we decide to "void" the deed. Interestingly, we hired a law firm for legal advice as soon as my mother entered a nursing home and they are the ones who encouraged us to draw up the lady bird deed and include it with my mother's medicaid application. How can an elderly, disabled and widowed person protect the only thing left she owns and not be penalized by Medicaid?

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I understand but if that's the rule, you can't really go beyond it. You can at best request them to spare your mother as she is disabled and old enough to bear the penalty.

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sara's picture
sara | Joined: July 5, 2006 03:16 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Jomirel,

Welcome to the forums.

The law firm, as I feel, shouldn't have encouraged you even when they know that it may lead you into trouble. Anyway, what's the penalty that you'll have to pay?

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

The penalty is assessed by disqualifying the applicant for a period of several months even for years. I have not been told the exact time period my mother will be disqualified.

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miller_st's picture
miller_st | Joined: January 17, 2007 04:47 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Joann,

Penalty period is calculated by dividing value of property transferred by what is determined to be average private pay cost of any nursing home in your state by Medicaid.

As an example, if in your state average monthly cost of care is $6000 & property worth $180,000 is transferred, then the person would be ineligible for benefits for 30 months ($180,000 divided by $6000 = 30).

Miller

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I was told that if you have a Enhanced Life Estate Deed that medicaid could not take your home away from you. That she would have complete control over home and after she dies it will go to the heirs that are stated in the will. They said it really is from the Ladybug deed? is the right?

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Niicss's picture
Niicss | Joined: October 3, 2005 11:54 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Janet

Enhanced Life Estate Deed/Lady Bird Deed, does enable a person to have the home exempt from medicaid claims during his lifetime. And also enable persons named on the deed receive the house free from medicaid claims.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

timing is key, disposal of assets within 60 months/5 years BEFORE APPLYING causes a penalty ..... i haven't read of any penalty AFTER QUALIFYING ..... in texas a home's value is exempt for qualification purposes, but subject to merp if no ladybird deed is done after qualifying or before 5 years before the original application is filed

[size=9:a5c98cffa3][color=Red:a5c98cffa3][Turned in lower caps as per the forum rules][/color:a5c98cffa3][/size:a5c98cffa3]

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

My mother who currently lives in her home with severe demencia will have to file for medicade. Her home is all she has which is currently in a trust to us her three children. We were recently told we should not have done that and that we should have done a Ladybird Deed. It has been in trust for 2 1/2 years. What will our liabilities be with the filing of medicade?

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sara's picture
sara | Joined: July 5, 2006 03:16 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Stylistathome,

I'm sorry to hear about your mother's illness. But I guess your mother won't be able to qualify for Medicaid assistance. This is because Medicaid does not approve property transfer within 5 years prior to the application. Since it's been just 2 and 1/2 years since the transfer, I guess your mother won't be eligible for it. However, you can still speak to a Medicaid attorney for further information in this regard.

Take Care

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Thru a major screw up on my attorney's part, homestead replacement was done, with the intent to live there, but actually parent never did. Medicaid denied and property is up for sale, I am being told to rent it for income stream to nursing home...I do have a lady bird deed in place for THIS property, but I cannot get a black and white guarantee answer that if I retain this property, make it a rental if I can and provide income stream that the end result will be upon my parent's passing, medicaid will put a lien on property after I have maintained it for years and paid them also. Is there a guarantee that on lien would be placed on this property?? If not, it seems to not behove me to keep it.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Oh, the property is in Florida

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Niicss's picture
Niicss | Joined: October 3, 2005 11:54 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Christyne

As far as I know Medicaid cannot place liens on the property provided if the property was transferred to someone with the help of a ladybird deed prior to making it a rental property.

Thanks.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

"Enhanced Life Estate Deed/Lady Bird Deed, does enable a person to have the home exempt from medicaid claims during his lifetime. And also enable persons named on the deed receive the house free from medicaid claims."------PER THIS STATEMENT, IN FLORIDA, DOES IT MATTER ABOUT THE TIMING OF WHEN THE ELED WAS PUT IN PLACE AS REGARDS ANY MEIDCAID LIENS?

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jameshogg's picture
jameshogg | Joined: December 20, 2005 02:58 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi aleksy,

As far as I know, enhanced life estate deed will not make a person ineligible for Medicaid as long the person expresses his/her "intent to return" to the property. The "intent to return" is generally expressed in the form of an affidavit or letter signed by the person. In case if there is no intent to return, the home can be said to be an exempt asset for Medicaid eligibility if that person's spouse or relative occupies it. But Medicaid has a look back period of 5 years. Transfers of countable assets during the look-back period of 5 years will lead in a waiting period. Once the waiting period is over, then the person concerned can start collecting the Medicaid.

Thanks

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

to Guest Christyne

Sounds like a touchy situation: since the property wasn't a homestead.. or
did the person live there at all.. they may not have bothered to file for
a homestead exemption,. as for it being in a Lady Bird / Enhanced life estate deed,.. if its been notorized before this person became disabled.. I sugest you file it on public records with the clerk of court,. and that depends on all the wording on that deed,. once your loved one passes,. the property is yours by operation of law, the next step is to file the death cert, with the court.. then take the copy of the bird deed that will also be of public record by that time.. and change the owner of record at the property appraisers office.. then the question comes about the mediaid lien if any was put on that property,.. they may have only filed a lien of record to the estate.. which means your title should be clear,. but if theres an actual lien on the property you can file outside of probate court a separate case of whats called a " Quiet Title Suit " against the lien.. this is done to get the encumbance off "lien off " the property,. from diffent views of both property laws and probate laws of florida.. I'd say the Quiet Title action to clear off the medical liens would be the best course of action,.. since in probate the judges have there hands tied to the probate codes which say that Medicaid gets paid,. ware as in a separate case outside of probate in a quite title action.. medicaid has to come in with repersentation but in probate they do not.. they just file there claim,. the research shows that medicaid has lost in quite title actions.. in tax deed sales that they had liens on a property because of the former owner.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

My mother-in-law is close to having to go into a nursing home. The lawyer has told my father-in-law if he places the home/farm into a lady bird deed, he will not have to spend down for Medicaid and when she/he passes that Medcaid can not come after the home/farm for owed monies for the nursing home. He is the only lawyer we can find who will do a lady bird deed. The home/farm is located in North Carolina. No lawyer even the bar association is aware of the lady bird deed in North Carolina. Is it accepted by Medicaid in North Carolina and if so, does it meet the criteria stated in my above questions? Any help would be appreciated.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Well, as far my knowledge, lady bird deed or a life estate deed is accepted in North Carolina. A lady bird deed will not disqualify your mother in law to receive the medicaid benifits if she plans to return home. Even if she does not return home, the property will be exempt from medicaid estate recovery if her spouse or relative stays in the property.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Medicaid (aka madical in california). When applying for medical, you can have no more than $2000.00 at any time, one house, and one vehicle. If one gifts their home to their kids, they need to do it through an Elder Attourney....not just "an" attourney. It is important to have a "intent to return" written and signed by the giftor when gift made legal. Always get the appropriate legal advise before, during, and after. Gifting can work!!! Don't just give it to the state....protect it.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

My grandfather has been in a nursing home for 5 months. His house is his only asset, which is due to go to my mother after his passing. They had a [url=http://www.mortgagefit.com/quitclaim-deed.html]Quit Claim Deed[/url] done years ago prior to his going on Medicaid. In Michigan, will the Ladybird Deed avoid Probate unlike the QCD? He just qualified for Medicaid in January. Will doing a Ladybird jeopardize his staying qualified for Medicaid?

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jewart's picture
jewart | Joined: February 13, 2009 07:09 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I am interested in getting a Ladybird deed to transer my real estate to my children. I live in North Carolina.

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jenkin7's picture
jenkin7 | Joined: June 4, 2007 11:02 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi jewart,

Enhanced life estate deeds or better known as Lady bird deeds are valid in states like Florida, Texas, Ohio, California, and Kansas. As far as I know there's no such clearly-defined law in the sate of NC that validates a lady bird deed. Thus it would be better if you can check with the county clerk's office whether this deed is valid in your state.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

My mother-in-law is in a nursing home in Mississippi which most of the cost is paid for by Medicaid. She stands to inherit a small amount ($10,000) of money from a brother that has just died. How will this affect her Medicaid eligility and what should I do or what can I do to be able to maintain her eligibility? Thank you for your advise.

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jenkin7's picture
jenkin7 | Joined: June 4, 2007 11:02 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi billy,

This might affect your mother's Medicaid eligibility and can even disqualify her for Medicaid services. It depends on the value of the property she inherits and whether it exceeds the resource limit. She can disclaim the inherited property but that too may attract transfer-of-assets penalty which can enforce an ineligibility period.

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jmessyd's picture
jmessyd | Joined: March 11, 2009 11:50 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I need to know if there is indeed an attached medicaid 'transfer' penalty when you have the lady bird deed, or if this penalty can NOT be attached if you have the lady bird deed. Plz. someone answer this question. I have read conflicting statements on this site, on this subject. One says yes, one says no....? What is the truth regarding this subject? This involves a home, medicaid, and nursing home in the future. This is in Texas.

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jmessyd's picture
jmessyd | Joined: March 11, 2009 11:50 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Is there a medicaid penalty for tranfering a home to a chid when the lady bird deed is used? Does it matter the deed is made before one files for medicaid or after? (in Texas)

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi jmessyd,

Any transfer within a look-back period of filing for medicaid will attract a penalty and make one ineligible for medicaid for a certain period of time. The penalty will depend on the value of the property transferred by the grantor.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

MY SISTER QUIKCLAIMED HER PROPERTY TO ME (IN TEXAS) BUT HAS A LIFE ESTATE. THIS WAS SOMETIME AGO SO ALL IS WELL THERE-NOW SHE IS IN A NURSING HOME AND WILL NEVER RETURN TO HER HOME, CAN THIS PROPERTY BE SOLD WITHOUT PROCEEDS GOING TO THE NURSING HOME.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

As she still has a life estate, I think the sale proceeds from the property will go to the nursing home.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

My husband will have to go to a nursing facility soon. If we have a Enchanced or Lady bird deed, will this affect his receiving any medicaid assistance. How far back will medicaid check for property or money transfers?
Thanks,
Yvonne Woodard

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Niicss's picture
Niicss | Joined: October 3, 2005 11:54 pm | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Yvonne

As far as I know, transferring property through ladybird deed will not effect the medicaid assistance that your husband will receive. To know more about the same topic, check out the following page:
http://www.mortgagefit.com/texas/ladybirddeed-medicaid.html

Thanks.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

anwer to that question is.. if the lady bird deed has been done correctly.. once this person/s on it have pass on.. the property is now yours.. all you do is file the death certificate at the court house... and of course a will if there is one.. this helps to back things up in the case there is an
erro on the lady bird deed.. then go over to the property appraisers office with a copy of the deed and the death certificate transfer the property over to your name or the benificaries on it,.. then if medicaid perist on a cliam or a lien on the property.. that lien was towards the prior owner.. which of course wasn't you.. you can contest the lien by fileing a lien contest which they have to respond with in a certin time period.. then the other legal course of action would be to file whats called a Quiet Title Suit action.. if your atty is sharp enought he/she should be able to see that route.. since its the case that the title is now in your name.. no probate arguements.. which is better since in probate court tends to lean towards seeing medicade whom dosen't need a lawyer in probate courts
gets paid back,, in Quiet Title Suit action the will have to come forward with representation in court.. which since the prior person no longer owns this property.. things line towards your favior in a Quite Title action.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

The effort is to insure that he has a roof over his head after we (the parents) are gone. I think I know the pros but not sure about the cons. In this situation is the lady bird the proper thing to due?

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sara's picture
sara | Joined: July 5, 2006 03:16 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Ken,

You can use a ladybird deed in order to transfer the property to your son. Ladybird deed will help you in having the life estate rights to the property and you would be able to sell it off, if you want, in your lifetime. In most of the cases, a ladybird deed will not affect the medicaid eligibility even.

Take care.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

What legal terminology is included in a lady byrd deed

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jameshogg's picture
jameshogg | Joined: December 20, 2005 02:58 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi Rose,

Your query has been answered in the given page:
http://www.mortgagefit.com/propertytransfer/about32954.html#143243

Please take a look at it. I hope it'll help you.

Thanks

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

My father is going to be going into a nursing home and he will be eligible for medicaid however my grandmother has a living trust that when she dies he would inherit one fifth of the trust. Is there a way for him to stay eligible for medicaid and just have my uncles and aunt inherit the trust? Or could they just leave it in the trust until he dies?

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jameshogg's picture
jameshogg | Joined: December 20, 2005 02:58 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi kris,

Your grandmother can change the living trust so that your father does not inherit her property. However, before taking any further step, I would suggest you to contact an attorney and take his opinion. The attorney will let you know whether or not there would be any negative affects due to the change in your grandmother's living trust.

Thanks

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I live in NY and would like to know if I filed a life estate deed and named my only child as the recipient . Could it be touched by Medicaid after the 5 year period had passed.?

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

If your child is owner of the property now and you have the life estate rights, then I don't think the Medicaid will be able come after the property. However, contact an attorney of your state who is an expert in Medicaid laws. He will help you in a batter manner.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi, My mother has Medicaid,Mom is very sick in hospital.But if mom goes into a nursing home will medicaid take her home. mom and my two sisters names appear on note, they are making paymets.
State where they live is Texas.

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jameshogg's picture
jameshogg | Joined: December 20, 2005 02:58 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi carr,

As far as I know, Medicaid will have the rights to take away the property in order to recover the dues. However, it would be a better option to contact an attorney and take his opinion in this regard.

Thanks

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

after my moms past away my dad put me and my sister on his did as joint owners now his going to go into a nursing home and needs to apply for medicate i was told he should have a ladybird deed instead his house is in florida

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jameshogg's picture
jameshogg | Joined: December 20, 2005 02:58 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi lois,

A ladybird deed is a good option of transferring the property solely to you and your sister. This deed will not affect the medicaid eligibility of your father and the property would be safe as long as you or any other close relative stays in the property.

Thanks

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

my mother has a life estate deed with me as the beneficiary. She presently lives in the home. We live in Alabama. Will she loose her home if she have to go into the nursing home for a long period of time. She is disable, over 80 years of age & recieve social security with medicare.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

As your mother only has the life estate rights and is not the owner of the property, I don't think she would lose the property if she goes to the nursing home.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

i am confused as to when the el/lb is done?after application to nursing home,after qualification or prior to or after disqualification and pote ntilapenalty,or before application for care,and how long?I know an atty adviice would be best,but financial factor precludes.

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adonis's picture
adonis | Joined: October 22, 2005 05:04 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

Hi patti,

You can sign a ladybird deed before going to the nursing home. As far as I know, ladybird deed does not affect the Medicaid eligibility. However, it would be a good option to contact a real estate attorney well versed with the Medicaid laws of your state and take his opinion in this matter.

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Anonymous's picture
Anonymous | Joined: June 8, 2004 01:06 am | Posts: 0 | Location: New Jersey | 00 Dollars($)

I would like to know the rules that apply to my question. If I am on s.s.i, medicaid only can I be added on my mothers deed? Only as a life estate at time of her passing. She is 80 yrs. old. What is the best way to handle this?

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